Comments on Heissatopia: Don't hate me...I'm American

There is a billboard that says that?!!! I have to ...

2009-07-08T12:16:05.773-06:00

There is a billboard that says that?!!!
I have to say, it was so nice to be at testimony in Alberta on fast Sunday because every testimony was a testimony. If anyone mentioned Canada Day at all, it was to say what a blessing to be with family.

When Utah Mormons do their superpatriotic thing, I think about the promise of the BoM--this land is promised those promises ONLY under certain conditions, which historically were met, but when I look around me...it doesn't look like those conditions are being met anymore. Just saying.

Yeah, it's been kind of a shock to be back in ...

2009-07-06T13:20:24.430-06:00

Yeah, it's been kind of a shock to be back in Utah. There's this billboard on I-15 that says "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS UNPATRIOTIC!!!!" and every time I drive past it I kind of go, "whaaaa??"

It probably does have a lot to do with location. I...

2009-07-06T12:17:12.184-06:00

It probably does have a lot to do with location. I was glad to read a commenter on BCC say that they didn't see this problem where they lived, and am glad to hear that you haven't found it to be a problem where you lived.

It makes the prospect of further education outside of Utah all the more likable! :)

Not that Utah's terrible, it's just that I have a lot of ideas that are kind of too "far out" for the general population to handle...

@Bridget - Yeah, on my mission I had some companio...

2009-07-06T12:14:49.380-06:00

@Bridget - Yeah, on my mission I had some companions say that living in Italy made them even more proud to be an American and that they would kiss the airport ground (some did) when they got home.

I got home, kind of expecting the same thing you did, but was like "Cool - I'm back. It's the same..."

The patriotism = testimony thing seems to be a Utah Mormon thing, I think. And they're all crazy anwyay :)

Andrew, I have honestly never had an experience li...

2009-07-06T11:38:11.746-06:00

Andrew, I have honestly never had an experience like yours, hearing someone say such things in church. Reading that made me cringe and feel sick all at the same time. So I can see that we're coming at this from different angles. I've never had any reason - based on personal experience, anyway - to believe that Mormon Americans have a God complex about their country, so that post seemed to be addressing a problem that I didn't even really know existed.

I'm horrified to realize that it does.

Nancy, I understand that wasn't what the BCC - or your - post was about, but the walking out during a hymn part was distracting to me. It smacked of someone just wanting to be offended. And it's funny you mention the friend feeling "less free" on non-American soil. I remember the first time I left America (to Japan) and then came back, I was like, "huh, I kind of expected it to feel different and blessed and holy, but it more or less feels the same."

That's not to say I don't appreciate the clean public restrooms every time I come back from the Middle East, which sentiment I'm sure you can relate to :).

Interesting post. Thanks.

While in college at the venerable BYU those so man...

2009-07-06T07:03:30.237-06:00

While in college at the venerable BYU those so many years ago, I happened across a journal article about the concept of Superpatriotism. These were during the days of Ronald Reagan, when the campus was abuzz with a deep love of an American president. In those days, the mere mention of any criticism of American domestic or foreign policy was tantamount to apostasy.
That article spoke of how honest patriotism, meaning a love for a country that inspires its citizens to espouse its virtues and decry its faults, was replaced with a worship of symbols that diminishes the kind of dialog that keeps a country relevant. Superpatriotism becomes almost a religion. Anthems become hymns, documents written by men for men, become scripture, and the flag invokes tears.
I will be among the first to agree that the United States stands in a unique position in the world. As it matured as a nation, it willingly replaced that centuries’ old dictum to expand and destroy its opponents. It stands almost alone among the family of nations in its attempts to lift others to free themselves of the failed doctrines of monarchy, colonialism, and totalitarianism. (Yes, I almost sound like a superpatriot.)
But to call oneself the greatest of all other nations; to claim the banner of the most free and the most correct is folly a best and arrogant at worse. I feel the culture of the United States has been unduly influenced by the superpatriot and this movement has done more to tear down the fabric of what is good about this country than any Communist conspiracy could have ever hoped.

I don't think the issue here is whether or not...

2009-07-06T02:33:35.642-06:00

I don't think the issue here is whether or not the author's wife walked out during the national anthem, or that his point/post/article loses credibility because of her actions. The point is that she felt uncomfortable to the point of having to leave. Why?

I haven't ever left during the national anthem. But I still feel uncomfortable at times.

But like the author at BCC, the singing of anthems was not the supposed to be the main idea of my post, either.

I had a relation once, who, upon her first time crossing the border into Canada said, "I feel less free already." Really? Like, 'cuz now the signs are in km instead of miles? Or was there some other reason I missed?

I love this person, but she's a little too "patriotic" and it seems to cross over into nationalism at times.

I feel the same way about another relation who equated the Scout's Honour (or whatever it is they do when they raise their hand and say "On my honour, I...) to the temple ceremony. Love 'em, but come on! Really?

Scouting is a sore spot for me, too...I think it's a fine program and that we should support it, but I don't think that Eagle Scout = Eternal Salvation, either...call me crazy.

I suppose a lot of this has to do with the area of the United States that you live in. I have only ever lived one place. Hopefully I will have a better taste in my mouth after experiencing other places.

I find, Bridget, that you are a very open-minded person. And I have never heard you say "America is the best" in any way, shape, or form. I have, however, heard plenty of other people assert America's superiority and degrade other countries in quite plain language. So many, in fact, that I feel it is a problem and definitely a stumbling block as far as international relationships go.

Maybe I just talk to all the wrong people...

@Bridget - I think the main problem is when Americ...

2009-07-06T01:08:09.591-06:00

@Bridget - I think the main problem is when American patriotism becomes the gospel.

At our 4th of July testimony meeting last year, one of the first speakers bore her testimony about the Declaration of Independence and how it is modern day scripture that stands along the Book of Mormon. She concluded that the world would be saved through the pillars of the DofI and the BoM and that all nations must follow the DofI to truly be free. America's nation-building efforts in Iraq/Afghanistan, she said, were divinely inspired because we're converting their people to freedom.

Many of the subsequent testimonies followed suit.

It was awkward even for me, a "pure" American. Singing the national anthem at the end, couched in the rhetoric of American uber-light-on-the-hill exceptionalism, was kind of weird. I didn't feel marginalized--just really awkward. I can't imagine what that would feel like to a visiting European member of the Church...

I'm normally fine (and Nancy probably is too) with the national anthem as a hymn--I'm fine with patriotism Its' just when they're hijacked with these new undertones of almost neo-imperial American exceptionalism, and then combined with the foundations of testimony that it gets out of hand.

... done with that mini soap box ...

You mean this song? I taught it to my 101 students :)

I don't know, man. I have mixed feelings about...

2009-07-05T18:05:51.813-06:00

I don't know, man. I have mixed feelings about this. I saw the post on BCC and to be honest, I rolled my eyes at the part where he said his wife left the room while everyone sang The Star Spangled Banner. Give me a break. I have a history of giving people the benefit of the doubt to a fault, but I guess I just feel like most of us are not trying to say America is the best. I'm not, anyway, and I have to say that I've never felt marginalized for that. Sacrament meeting talks should always be about the gospel of Jesus Christ, regardless of what holiday or day it is. A talk about scout camp would be just as "offensive" as a talk about the American flag.

Sorry to get on my soapbox. I think we fundamentally agree - I don't mind singing whoever's national anthem, wherever, on whatever national holiday.

In other news, do you still remember the words to Jordan's "jaish ana jaish il-watan..."?

:)

Amen and amen!

2009-07-05T15:57:27.212-06:00

Amen and amen!